The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast
Thank you for listening to the Chemical Sensitivity Podcast!
Generously supported by the Marilyn Brachman Hoffman Foundation.
Amplifying voices of people with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (MCS) and research about the illness.
Founded and hosted by Aaron Goodman, Ph.D.
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The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast
Protecting Children from Harmful Chemicals: David Steinman
Episode 51 of The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast is available now!
https://www.chemicalsensitivitypodcast.org/
It’s called “Protecting Children from Harmful Chemicals.”
I’m speaking with David Steinman, author and activist about his 2024 book, “Raising Healthy Kids: Protecting Your Children from Hidden Chemical Toxins.”
You’ll hear David talk about the urgent need to reduce chemical exposures for children, the benefits of eating organic food, and what he calls “deep caring.” By this, he means reading stories with children about environmental heroes and involving young people in green initiatives. I ask David about the lack of regulation of harmful toxins and how best to advocate for the use of safer products in public spaces.
I hope you enjoy the conversation.
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About David Steinman and his book:
https://davidwilliamsteinman.com/
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Aaron Goodman: Welcome to the Chemical Sensitivity Podcast. I'm Aaron Goodman, host and creator of the show. I'm a longtime journalist, documentary maker, university instructor, and communication studies researcher. And I've lived with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity or MCS for years. MCS is also known as chemical intolerance and toxicant-induced loss of tolerance or TILT.
The illness affects millions around the world. And the number of people with MCS is rising just about everywhere. Living with MCS means dealing with a range of overlapping symptoms, including fatigue, shortness of breath, difficulty concentrating, muscle and joint pain, headaches, eye irritation, confusion, memory loss, rashes, and more.
Small amounts of chemicals and synthetic fragrances in household and personal care products, paint, construction materials, along with pesticides, cigarette smoke, carpets, plants, and more can spark a cascade of debilitating symptoms. Dismissed by healthcare providers, employers, and even loved ones, many feel misunderstood, isolated, and invisible.
This podcast aims to change that. We delve into the latest research and speak with all kinds of people impacted by MCS. You'll gain important knowledge, a sense of validation and learn about navigating the realities of MCS. We also explore wider issues connected to toxic chemical pollution and how individuals and communities are pushing back against it and the harms it causes.
In this episode, I'm speaking with David Steinman. David is the author of the excellent 2024 book "Raising Healthy Kids: Protecting Your Children from Hidden Chemical Toxins," published by Skyhorse. There are a lot of books about healthy living. But this one, in my view, stands out. It's a detailed resource, which reflects years of research, and it's something I will go back to over and over to see about what kinds of foods are safest, and I mean free from toxic chemical pollution, to learn more about household cleaning options, and more. And it's definitely not just a book for parents.
David has served as a representative of the public interest at the National Academy of Sciences and is the chief officer of the nonprofit Healthy Living Foundation. His other books include the bestseller "Diet for a Poisoned Planet," "The Safe Shopper's Bible," and "Safe Trip to Eden."
You'll hear David and I talk about why the stakes are so high now, and why it's vital that we do all we can to avoid toxic chemicals in food and the environment. David talks about organic food, simple things we can do at home, which most of you listening are already aware of, but they're good reminders, and what David calls “deep caring”, reading stories about green and environmental heroes with children, spending time in nature, and encouraging children to get involved in green campaigns.
[00:03:21] Aaron Goodman: Hi, David. Thank you so much for doing this.
[00:03:34] David S.: Good morning, Aaron. It’s great to be with you today.
[00:03:26] Aaron Goodman: David, you had a very long career in this field, this field of creating awareness about toxic chemicals. Can you talk to us a little bit about your career in a nutshell and how you came to the point of wanting to write this book?
[00:03:44] David S: Thank you for asking that question. I was probably the first person to acknowledge DDT poisoning from eating fish in the Santa Monica Bay in Los Angeles, California.
And I didn't know I was being poisoned. I grew up fishing and working on fishing boats and unknown to me, there was a chemical plant called Montrose in South Central Los Angeles, which is a primarily black area of the city, and they were making DDT and they had so much waste sludge left over that was contaminated with DDT. They got permission from our water board. This is literally permission to dump 2000 tons of DDT into the ocean in the Catalina channel, which is basically the Santa Monica Bay. No one told us, but they let us keep on fishing there. And for over 20 years, I fished in that area and I became an investigative reporter for the LA Weekly.
And we did a story. Dolphins had washed up on shore with huge amounts of chemicals in their blubber. Dead. And that was a story in itself, but we decided to see who else was getting poisoned. So I teamed up with a doctor, a marine biologist and a toxicologist, and we went around all the fishing piers and boats in Los Angeles County, and we got about 40 people to give us their blood, believe it or not, we offered them $500 worth of lab work to find out if they had DDT or PCBs in their blood. And in exchange, they would let us take their blood and use it for our study. As it turned out, the people eating the most fish from the bay, the locally caught fish, also had by far, three or four times higher DDT and PCB levels.
So we, the study was eventually published in the medical literature, too, because it was the first study to ever be done on measuring serum levels of DDT and PCBs in fishermen and women on the West Coast. But it also led to congressional and state hearings, and the Santa Monica Bay was declared a Superfund site and received a lot of federal funding to start cleaning up the DDT mess.
In addition, there are warnings posted around The Bay about eating the locally caught fish because of its high DDT levels. What I also saw, Aaron, was this wasn't a benign situation. A lot of the people in that study probably got sick and died. I'll just give you an example. One of the people in the study was a Japanese American man. He was probably in his sixties then, had really beautiful thin skin. It was, we took his blood at the Venice pier and while we were taking his blood, his bucket was filled with, I noticed his bucket was filled with a type of fish called a white croaker that he said, his wife said, "Oh, we eat these every day."
This is, he said, I said, "Where do you, what do you do for a living?" He said, "Oh, I was a postal carrier." And I said, "What happened? What do you still do that?" He said, "No, I have liver cancer and DDT go together like love and marriage." I can tell you more stories about my own family from being exposed to DDT and dying of liver cancer.
And I was, as I mentioned, exposed to DDT. I haven't exhibited those symptoms. And that may be because doing the study led me to change my way of eating and seeing the world. And that's what led me to write all the books. Now, as I see the world differently than other people, like when I look at food or products, I know, I don't think, oh, this is good for my skin or this is going to taste good. I also say, "What's in it? Why aren't they telling me what's in it? And how is this going to affect me?" That was my writing for a long time. "Diet for a Poisoned Planet," "Safe Shopper's Bible." But as I've gotten older, I've said, "How is it going to affect me and my community? And my neighbors?" So I've gone from being non-toxic to anti-toxic.
And I think "Raising Healthy Kids: Protecting Your Children from Hidden Chemical Toxins" takes the reader, mom and dad or any adult who wants to be healthy from not knowing anything to being non-toxic eventually to just really understanding the consequences for your neighbors and being anti-toxic. So that's this, that's how I came to write "Raising Healthy Kids." And put the perspective on it that I did.
[00:08:17] Aaron Goodman: Thank you. You write, "There's another ever-present danger that impacts their health, and parents know next to nothing about it when it comes to protecting them. They're increasing exposures to the everyday, toxic, hidden chemicals in our lives." How do you assess the dangers that we all face? How grave a problem is this and why is so little known about it?
[00:08:50] David S.: Excellent questions. And the danger is grave for the kids and for our country. And why is so little known about it? Our movement, what I would call anti-toxic, really didn't even begin until the 1960s when Rachel Carson published "Silent Spring."
Until that time, none of us even had a vocabulary or an inkling of how to see things. She created a world. And I really urge anyone who hasn't read "Silent Spring" to pick up a copy. We didn't know about words like part per billion, or endocrine disruption, or environmental impact report. We had no idea about these concepts.
So, it takes a long time for concepts to go from birth to acceptance into society. And really, it wasn't until the mid-80s that people began to even begin to wake up to what was going on with hidden chemical toxins in our products. And it really wasn't until the 90s that we began to understand, and this is where chemical sensitivity comes into it, that the implications are far larger than cancer.
In the 60s and 70s, we did studies with laboratory rats and mice to see if a chemical caused cancer or really obvious birth problems, birth defects. But these methods are very crude. They don't allow rapid study or even really the best kind of study because lab animals reproduce, but every few months and they're expensive to keep up and there's a lot you can't do with them.
But in the 80s and 90s, we started finding other ways to look at the chemical, the toxic effects of chemicals to which we're exposed. We started using test tube studies, but also easier to use biological models like zebrafish where you can breed just quantum numbers of them, and they reproduce very fast, plus they are transparent, so you can see the most minute changes that are happening in their DNA.
So when we were in the 60s and 70s, we were looking at cancer, which is a very gross, long-term effect from exposure, but not the first effect, or necessarily even the most insidious. People haven't even known what was happening to them because we didn't have the models. We didn't have the language until the 80s and 90s.
If mom and dad are pregnant with their child and they go to the doctor, he's going to say, take your folic acid, don't smoke. But they're not going to tell you about what kind of shampoos you're using or what kind of personal care products or foods you're eating and whether they have pesticides in them or necessarily what kind of tuna fish to eat because of the mercury in it.
They're not going to tell you about cleaning products. Or air pollution, or to use a high-efficiency particulate air filter. Not because they're bad people, or necessarily not smart. This just isn't the area they studied in school. They don't know about it. They don't know what to tell their patients.
Listen, if mom is using a shampoo and it has phthalates in it, Aaron. These are microplastics, they're nanoplastics, but they're the starting block for all sorts of chemicals and they're called phthalates and they show up in cosmetics because they help, they weigh a lot and they attach to fragrance and they weigh it down and keep it in the product rather than aromatizing out to the environment or into the ambient air.
They also can change the texture of a product and make it a little more sensual to feel rather than just watery. So if mom doesn't know that, and these aren't listed on the label either, now I tell you I don't want people to raise up their hands and say you're just being apocalyptic now and a nihilist and telling us everything is messed up.
No, there's a real solution and that's what my book is about. But if mom doesn't know about this issue and the problems that studies show, and these are peer-reviewed published studies show that high normal levels of phthalates in mom during pregnancy that they can detect in her urine that pass through the placenta into the child.
These will knock off five to seven IQ points from her child. That's robbing them of their future. That's literally the difference between getting into one great school or another or more to the point. It's slower learning. They can also produce cognitive problems. The kids are also at higher rates for, at risk for, higher risk of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder.
Their gender behavior is modified. Their fertility is lessened. And that's because the phthalates, which are microplastics, also imitate the sex hormone estrogen. And in the body, as they stream through the body, they purposefully look for the cell receptors on our sex organs. They latch on to these little receptors and displace any natural hormones because they last longer, they're more prevalent, and they're more toxic.
So they latch on and stay there, and they modify the genes of the developing fetus. And they can say, let's produce more of this toxic form of estrogen. Or let's block the testosterone. I think the problem is dire for individuals and the nation.
[00:14:30] Aaron Goodman: David, you mentioned Multiple Chemical Sensitivity. You also mentioned your own experience with exposure to pesticide through fish you were eating. Do you want to talk a little bit, whether you've had any experience with MCS and how do you view it and how big a problem it is?
[00:14:51] David S.: It's enormous and it can be disabling. And there are very few rights that people who have any MCS actually experience. You can walk into a room filled with fragrances and get immediately sick. And you can't smoke, but there's no regulations against chemical sensitivity. And I, from my own experience, I know where my sensitivities are and I use them to keep myself safe. For example, Aaron, I was just in Cancer Alley, Louisiana, doing work for a nonprofit and we had been spending the day with kids at an elementary school who are right next to a plastic manufacturing plant.
That evening I was driving through reserve. And I was following a truck, not by intention, that was spraying a pesticide all over the community, and I was getting sick following the truck. And it was like a pickup truck with a blower that was blowing chemicals. And I eventually didn't want to, but I did go up to the truck. I didn't want to because I knew it was going to happen to me. And I asked him, "What are you doing? What are you using?" And I wasn't doing it in a hostile way. I was just curious, being a reporter. He told me the name of the chemical and basically it's a chemical called permethrin and it's a pretty well..
[00:16:19] Aaron Goodman: Pretty well, because it's the one that triggered my TILT event, my chemistry.
[00:16:21] David S.: We need to know about your event. I went up, I was sick after I was getting sick, driving past it, but this stuff like permethrin is being sprayed throughout the United States for mosquitoes, people who are MCS are not necessarily even being warned about it. The people who are in charge aren't looking for the non-toxic options, which do exist. And I know people who are so disabled from chemical sensitivity, they've lost their ability to function in society. And to talk about things that we're not aware of, we need to raise the awareness even more. But your own experience of permethrin, that's interesting.
[00:17:00] Aaron Goodman: Yeah, I was exposed to a pesticide and that's what triggered the chemical sensitivity that I've lived with for years. And we know that pesticide is a trigger for a lot of people. Let's talk about the lack of awareness in broader society about the harms of toxic chemicals in everyday products, whether we're talking about food, cleaning products or household products, laundry products, et cetera. Right. So just briefly, one of the things in my own experience over the last months is advocating for change at a martial arts center where I bring my two children and where I practice with them and the cleaner, the cleaning product that they've been using is something that's bright colored and very chemically scented. And it makes me feel very ill and it's not healthy. We know that, but just asking for the change, I've offered to supply something healthy, it's been really challenging, right?
And we often experience that level of resistance or pushback, if we can call it that. Why do you think that is, David?
[00:18:08] David S.: The Multiple Chemical Sensitivity movement actually sprang out of the anti-toxic movement, so it's even younger than Rachel Carson from '62, but there is so little media coverage of this issue. And I think it's because this is coming out of the anti-toxic movement. And I don't think the media in general understands the implications for society. We're talking about largely invisible substances and illnesses. We published a book once at Freedom Press, the publishing company that I have run. It was called "Invisible Illnesses."
And it was a wonderful book because it started to explain that if you're feeling sick every day, like disoriented, fatigued, look at the chemicals in your environment, these effects can be subtle, but they're very real and then replace them. And that's the thing that I think has held us back is that we've created a problem, but we haven't known that there are solutions to it and how to present those solutions. But I know from my experience with people and my own kids and my own life, that as you start to become aware and replace toxic products with healthier ones, your body responds immediately.
Your messenger RNA tells the DNA, "Hey, things are better out here. Start producing healthier estrogens. Start producing a little more testosterone. Start thinking your nerve synapses work better." So, there's been a, it's such a young movement. And there isn't enough media coverage, whether it's good or bad media coverage, we just don't have enough.
I think people are taking it more seriously now. And again, I think with MCS, we have to link it back to toxicity for the individual, but also for our community and for our nation. You know, it can't be something where individuals are hurt but the nation doesn't suffer because then they'll just say we're discards, we're anomalies. But if we say, look, what we are experiencing is what 30 to 35 percent of the population experiences. And did you know that these same chemicals are harming every child in different ways by reducing their ability to reproduce or think? Maybe we can present a coherent vision that the media and individuals can understand and bring into their own lives.
Aaron Goodman: David, in the book you present a lot of really practical options for folks, and people listening are obviously very well versed in this, but there's some really helpful stuff. It's a really valuable resource, particularly I found, when it comes to food, you categorize all kinds of foods and list what's harmful, what's not, what's safe, what's dangerous. That's something that I will go back to time and time again for myself and my family. So I encourage listeners to pick up a copy because it's really a valuable resource. So you talk about laundry products. Hair, shampoo, hair dyes, etc. Is there anything that may have surprised you in your research this time around? Did you realize that something is a lot more toxic than you thought it may have been, for example?
[00:21:45] David S.: I think the toxicity issue is much greater than I imagined as I looked into it. Also, you know what else surprised me, Aaron, was all the options we have. When I wrote my first book, Diet for a Poisoned Planet, There was no such thing as safe shopping. There was really no such thing as green cleaning products because frankly, all the green cleaning products in the year 2000 were all contaminated with carcinogens. The manufacturers didn't quite understand the situation themselves. The nonprofit group I run healthy living foundation changed that beginning in 2007 by starting to sue companies in the natural products industry for greenwashing. And that was surprising that there are more options. Now, the reason there are more options is because folks like you and me began buying safe and healthy products 20 to 25 years ago, even before there was an organic market. There were different kinds of labels and they weren't organic labels, they were just pesticide reduction labels.
Our consumer power, Aaron, is so great, it moves things faster than legislation. And that's one of the things I totally have discovered and believe in. Because today when we're shopping, and this is one of the pleasant surprises, today when we're shopping for organic foods, the staples like celery, lettuce. Carrots, onions, potatoes, oranges, apples, even watermelon now that it's summertime and they're in season. All of these, as organics, are the same price, sometimes even cheaper, than conventionally grown crops. Why is that? Because of folks like myself and others who have been demanding safe and healthy organic foods for several decades now.
The market has responded. There is far more organic acreage today than there was 20 or 30 years ago. And that has brought the prices down. And that is why today one of the pleasant surprises in writing Raising Healthy Kids is that there's really no excuse for not going organic. The other thing, the pleasant surprise is, all the benefits of organic have been documented. In peer reviewed and published studies, and that's the thing that's really exciting is that we talk about what you have to give up, but we don't talk about the rewards for giving that up and substituting the healthier foods. I start the book with food because food is the first thing we think about when we're going to be trying to change our lives in very fundamental ways.
It's what do you, what are you eating? And how does that make your tummy feel? And how do you digest it? And are you gaining weight, losing weight? And do you have brain fog and. We have those alternatives now, Aaron, we really do. There's no excuse. We do have them at affordable prices and that's a really pleasant surprise.
[00:24:43] Aaron Goodman: Some, I can just hear people listening. They may say, some people may say it's still too expensive for me, but, but I understand the point that the more we buy them, more options will become available. And I do see more household cleaning products and laundry products, beauty products available.
But we also see the mass marketing of really powerfully chemically scented products for laundry and house and body everywhere. And that. That feels quite overwhelming, to see that happening and just to smell it everywhere. The laundry products are particularly nauseous and affect people with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.
Do you have anything positive to say about that could potentially give us some hope that, I'll just share and you're probably aware of this in Japan, for example, a lot of people are getting ill because of the influx in the market of synthetically scented laundry products that were never there a decade ago, but people are really being affected and across North America and globally. They're there. What can you say about that for us?
[00:26:03] David S.: That's huge. This first, well, first of all, I took a friend of mine shopping for laundry products. At a local big box, a local store the other day, it was very dismal actually, because even the products that claim to be green, Aaron, some of them still contain what they call natural fragrance, which is not really natural.
You have to remember folks listening. If it says natural fragrance, it's not natural. The government ironically, allows manufacturers to use that, but the fragrance is what? The ingredients they use in the combinations they use are not natural. Are not natural at all. But the bigger issue to me was even the products that claim to be green contained methylated alcohols.
You'll see them on the labels like Laneth 7, for example, L A N E T H hyphen 7. And anytime you see an ETH word on the label of a laundry detergent, you don't want to use it. Why? Because ethoxylated alcohols will contain a carcinogen called 1, 4 dioxane. And that, um, is a known cause of a male breast cancer in experimental studies.
And it also shows up, for example, Aaron, in baby shampoo, baby bubble bath, body wash for adults and children. It shows up in products, as I mentioned. from brands that you would think are green, but they're really not. These brands that you think are green, but really not, I won't name them, but they're owned by larger companies, and those larger companies are very tied into petrochemical resources, so I think they're harming the reputation of these other brands.
You want to avoid anything with ETH or fragrance, natural or just, if it just says fragrance, it's totally synthesized. If it says natural fragrance, it's not really natural. It may have other ingredients added to it. It's not a naturally sourced fragrance, it's been made in the laboratory.
[00:28:12] Aaron Goodman: In your book you write about, you call it the power of deep caring. And you write about reading stories about green or environmental heroes with children, spending time in nature, encouraging children to become involved in green campaigns. Do you want to talk a little bit about how you view the power of deep caring?
[00:28:34] David S.: That was brought to me by a family in Pennsylvania, and they've been working to stop the plastics, the Shell Plastics plant, and all the fracking that's been going on in Pennsylvania in their, in the Pittsburgh area.
And what I do in Raising Healthy Kids is we start out individualistically. We're talking about our own kids safety in the first place. 13 chapters of the book, there's 15 chapters, but by chapter 14 and 15, we start talking about society and we parents have to realize a few things. One, there's no one looking out for our kids really, but us, uncle Sam, the federal government is the last backstop, not the first.
And that backstop, by the way, has a lot of loopholes in it. So, Mom and Dad, Uncle Sam's not going to protect you. The big corporations are not going to protect you. I'm not saying this as someone who's bashing everyone. I'm just being a parent and speaking plainly now. They're not going to protect you.
Your school isn't going to protect you. In fact, your school May not even tell you mom and dad that the drinking water in your child's fountain has lead in it, or may not even have any rules against wearing perfume in the classroom. And they're not going to protect your kid. The only one who's going to protect your kid is you, you, you have to be the example, you have to show them that you care.
And my kids used to yell at me when I was buying them the safe bubble bath. They wanted the Scooby Doo with all that dioxane in it, Aaron, that made all those big bubbles. But I knew back then that it was not good for them. And they say, daddy, why are you doing this? We want bubbles. We want bubbles. You got to explain it to them.
You got to explain that this can't be, there are chemicals in this product. And I really care about you. And that's why I'm doing this. And then you have to show them, you have to write a letter and protest something. If there's a new plant, a new chemical plant going on, going down in your neighborhood or a carbon capture sequestration scheme going on, if there's an ethylene oxide plant being built, if they want to frack in your park, you have to make your voice heard because you are the adult, the adults.
Are you and me? They're not in Washington, D.C. As far as I can see right now, Washington, D. C. is fairly dysfunctional, and when it comes to our issues, like chemical sensitivity and chemical exposures, they're not even dysfunctional. They don't even exist. We, the parents, need to have that kind of deep caring that protects our kids.
That becomes informed. If you don't, you can suffer. Let me just give you a really practical example. I want you to read the book. Parents are sending their kids off to preschool. This is in New Hampshire. They don't bother to check the water before their kids go there. They later learn that preschool was getting water from a well with forever chemicals.
The state finally gets around to checking the blood of the kids. Their kids are loaded with forever chemicals. All they needed to do was know to say to the preschool, do you have records of your tap water? Is it what's, what's your testing show? Oh, you don't have any records. Then we're going to test it before we send our kid there.
We're going to invest a few hundred dollars to test it for PFAS forever chemicals. Oh, it's got PFAS in it. Sorry. Our kids can't go to that school or Hey, I'm going to pack my kids with silver. Flask with my water from my house that I filtered several times. I'm going to give that to them because I don't want them drinking lead or forever chemical tainted water.
If you don't do that yourself, mom and dad, who's going to do it for you? And what are you going to do if your kids come home with a hundred parts per trillion of forever chemicals in their bloodstream? And you know it causes cancer, kidney and liver damage, infertility. What are you going to do then? Deep caring, it means educating yourself, showing your kids that you care by taking action in a community way, and most of all, at the same time, protecting your kids by being knowledgeable.
Because as we started out, your doctor's not going to tell you this. The government's not going to tell you this. Corporations aren't going to tell you this. It's an area that I specialized in. We're just growing as a movement. We are the adults. If this country wants to be a functioning democracy with a future where kids are getting brighter and smarter, instead of being dumbed down.
[00:33:20] Aaron Goodman: I have two words for you, deep caring and deep caring is often difficult because we know speaking out, speaking up is challenging. Isn't it?
[00:33:31] David S.: You have to be willing to be out there as a parent and if your kid's being harmed, you Because that school is spraying malathion around the school campus. No matter what it takes, you have to protect your kids. You're in the right. Don't let them tell you you're crazy. So yeah, you may be made to feel as a parent like you're weird or being impractical or something. You're not. And you need to care. You need to protect your children.
[00:33:59] Aaron Goodman: David, thank you so much for taking time and for everything you've shared. It's been fantastic.
David S.: I've learned a lot from you, Aaron. I really hope we get to talk again.
Aaron Goodman: You've been listening to The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast. I'm the host and podcast creator, Aaron Goodman.
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