Aaron Goodman: [00:00:00] Welcome to The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast. I'm Aaron Goodman. For many people with multiple chemical sensitivity, or MCS, basic parts of everyday life, going to work, seeing a doctor, attending school, finding safe housing, or accessing public spaces remain inaccessible, and that's why this conversation is especially urgent.

In Spain, advocates and organizations are working to turn recognition into something concrete: safer healthcare, workplace accommodations, accessibility, and the right of people with MCS to participate fully in society. My guest today is Maria Lopez Matallana, president of CONFESQ, the Spanish National Coalition for Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity, and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

Maria [00:01:00] is also president of the Madrid Association for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity.

We are part of society, and we really need to be able to have the necessary accommodations in order to live and participate in society. In our conversation, Maria describes what people with MCS are experiencing in Spain, but also what's beginning to change. We talk about hospital protocols, workplace accommodations, and fragrance-free environments, stigma, disability rights, and why collective advocacy may be essential to achieving lasting change We also ask whether some of the progress being made in Spain can offer lessons for people with MCS in other countries.

Please visit and share the podcast's new webpage. It's listen.chemicalsensitivitypodcast.org. It's an easy way to introduce these [00:02:00] conversations about MCS to friends, family members, healthcare professionals, and others. To learn more, follow The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast on YouTube, Facebook, X, Instagram, BlueSky, and TikTok.

And you can write to me at aaron@chemicalsensitivitypodcast.org. This conversation is part of a series featuring MCS advocates, healthcare professionals, legal experts, and people with lived experience of the condition in different parts of Europe. 

Here's my conversation with Maria. 

A Spanish language version is also being released on the podcast.

Thanks for listening. 

Could you introduce yourself and tell us about CONFESQ, and explain how your advocacy work for people with MCS began?

María López Matallana: CONFESQ is a Spanish coalition that brings together different [00:03:00] patient associations representing fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, or myalgic encephalomyelitis, multiple chemical sensitivity, and electromagnetic hypersensitivity. At the moment, I chair CONFESQ because I'm president of the SFC-SQM Madrid Association for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Multiple Chemical Sensitivity in the Community of Madrid.

We are patient associations that work locally. We support people, helping them in their search for a diagnosis, helping them adapt to everyday life, and where possible, to their jobs. We help with administrative procedures and accompany people to medical appointments We have volunteers who can accompany people, do their shopping, go to the bank, take care of errands for people who are ill.

And that's one part of our work, accompanying, helping, and providing mutual support to people who come to the association. We're also [00:04:00] legally recognized as an information and guidance service in Madrid. In fact, we are the only information and guidance service on MCS in all of Spain, and people call us from throughout the country even though our official recognition is within the community of Madrid.

We also do policy advocacy with health authorities, with disability authorities, and wherever else it is necessary to improve people's situation. SFC-SQM Madrid, for example, secured one of the first hospital care protocols for people with multiple chemical sensitivity, and that later helped other autonomous communities, which is how Spain is administratively organized, establish their own hospital care protocols.

SFC-SQM Madrid became part of the CONFESQ coalition, and in 2022 we took over the presidency of CONFESQ. So this is the first time the [00:05:00] presidency of CONFESQ has had such strong representation of MCS because from Madrid we also helped organize a Spanish network of associations for CFS and MCS. The whole network then joined CONFESQ, and we began doing another kind of work in addition to the direct work with individuals.

Healthcare responsibilities belong to the autonomous communities, but CONFESQ operates at the national level. That means working with the Ministry of Health, running national campaigns, and making sure all the associations use the same language and the same message, and producing documents that can be useful to us.

These have included reports on MCS from a disability and human rights perspective, a study of people living with this condition in Spain, and now The Green Book on Workplace Adaptation for People with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity and Electro- Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity, which was produced together with [00:06:00] Fundación Once.

Fundación Once is a Spanish organization in the disability field with a great deal of influence in Europe and Latin America. Once originally began in relation to blindness and visual impairment, but today the work they do is extraordinary, including the financial support they provide across all kinds of disability issues They've now begun to understand environmental barriers and the fact that there are emerging forms of disability that can happen to anyone and that require visibility, support, and effort.

Their help has been extraordinary in making this book possible and in helping it become known, including within the business community. Spain has done a great deal of work in the disability field, and through that route, people are beginning to understand us differently with a great deal of respect. We found that talking about employment is especially effective.

When you talk about your home and say, "I have Multiple Chemical Sensitivity," some people may think it [00:07:00] is something arbitrary or a personal preference. But when you talk about work, people do not question it in the same way, because you do not stop working on a whim. You stop because you are ill, because you cannot work, because the workplace makes you sick.

We found that it is easier for people and institutions to understand this because you need to support your family, support yourself, have a home, and eat. Those things are fundamental. You can give up going to the cinema, but you cannot give up eating every day, having a roof over your head, and caring for your family.

Aaron Goodman: So we found that employment is a very good entry point, and that has also been possible thanks to Fundación Once, and we've also worked a great deal with the organization FE. Based on the experience of people and organizations represented by CONFESQ, what is it really like to live with MCS in Spain today?

What are the main barriers that people encounter [00:08:00] in their everyday lives?

María López Matallana: I think the barriers are universal for all of us who live with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, and above all, they are accessibility barriers. If the environmental toxicant were not there as a barrier, you could live a normal life. I could live a normal life. Now let me come back to the question. The main barriers include housing.

Those problems can sometimes be resolved. You can speak with your neighbors and hope they are understanding, or perhaps live in an individual house further away from others. But housing is a major problem, especially in large cities. There's also a very serious problem with access to work. It has to do with cleaning products, the materials used to make furniture and equipment the type of ventilation, pest control, and all the other things you already know very well.

Of course, that includes cleaning and disinfecting products. It also becomes [00:09:00] a problem if your coworkers are not willing to make personal changes in order to respect your disability. So we have workplace barriers, and very similar barriers occur in schools. Sometimes they are even harder to control. It also depends on the kind of job.

If you work in a shop, it is harder to control the environment than if you work in an office or outdoors But schools can also be very difficult, whether you are a teacher or a student. The same applies to universities and any educational setting. The problem is that you find these barriers everywhere.

You find them when trying to enter shops. I do not know about where you are, but here in Spain, corporate scenting has become fashionable, a signature fragrance used by a business, and that ma- that can make it completely impossible for you to enter a store. With cleaning, you may be able to avoid exposure by going at certain times, earlier or later when there are [00:10:00] fewer people.

But when a business uses a permanent corporate fragrance, it becomes impossible. You simply cannot go in, and the same thing happens in public spaces. That includes cultural and leisure centers, sports facilities, and other public spaces. And of course, it becomes much harder when there are many people using the same space, and they are not your coworkers or classmates, but members of the general public.

I've wandered away from the question again. The barriers, the main barriers. There's another kind of barrier that we talk about: people's understanding. How do I get the people at my workplace or in my educational setting to understand and accept, first understand and then accept, that they themselves can be a barrier for me, and that it is nothing personal?

It's not personal. I do not have a personal problem with you. It's not that I dislike you, but I cannot be around you [00:11:00] if you're wearing perfume or if your clothes have been washed with a heavily fragranced fabric softener, for example. We think this is very important both in personal life and in the workplace, and of course, in education as well.

This is one of the main problems we face. We also discover that many people with other illnesses, people who are not diagnosed with multiple chemical sensitivity, experience the same or similar problems. Transplant recipients, for example, or people with certain autoimmune diseases can also have these kinds of difficulties.

Aaron Goodman: This is not widely known. I think one of our future goals should be to join forces with people who do not identify as having multiple chemical sensitivity, but who do recognize that they have difficulties with shared environments or with access to public spaces. CONFESQ has collected data on people with MCS and electromagnetic hypersensitivity throughout Spain.

What did you learn from the [00:12:00] research that even you did not know or fully understand before you began collecting the data?

María López Matallana: The illness is not understood I would not say that what we found in the study surprised me, but it is true that a very high percentage of people feel that the illness is not understood. That's where it begins. Many people simply do not know about it, and many others know about it but do not understand it, and that is the beginning of isolation, a great deal of personal suffering, and difficulty finding adapted spaces or getting the people around you to make accommodations.

There is, in other words, a very significant stigma surrounding people with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity. Accommodations are also difficult to obtain. We knew this already, but our study confirmed it. It also confirmed something else many of us know. [00:13:00] A very high percentage of people have to move houses and find somewhere else to live.

That may be because you live in a city, because neighbors hang fragranced laundry below your home, or simply because people do not understand. Building management may also refuse accommodations when common areas are cleaned, for example. Patient associations do work hard in this area. I think we do good work helping people understand and providing support.

But in our survey, 38% of respondents told us they had already had to move houses, and another 31% were considering moving. Another very important part of the problem is lack of awareness, not only among neighbors, friends, or coworkers, but within government and public administration itself. As a result, protective measures are not put in place.

A wheelchair user, for example, may find ramps to enter a building, but you may be unable to access your workplace [00:14:00] because there is an air freshener, because the cleaning products are too strong, or because there's poor ventilation Whatever the cause, there's no protection for you in that sense. And from a human rights perspective, which you'll hear more about from the people we work with in this area, that cannot be accepted.

It cannot be acceptable for a sector of the population, and it is not a small one, to be disregarded and abandoned because there is a lack of knowledge or because people find the necessary changes difficult. Of course, many people have lost their sense of smell and cannot smell at all, but they still react to chemicals.

So sometimes people know you cannot smell, and they put on perfume before coming to your home, for example, and that contaminates your home, and you begin to feel unwell, perhaps with stomach symptoms, even though you cannot smell the fragrance. That kind of disregard [00:15:00] for this form of disability, which you would not show towards someone who uses a wheelchair, someone who's blind or someone who's deaf, is perhaps one of the hardest things.

 Aaron Goodman: I think one of the hardest parts is the loneliness and the lack of understanding and consideration Your work examines barriers in healthcare, employment, housing, education, and public spaces. In which areas do people with MCS currently experience the greatest exclusion, and how does that exclusion show up in everyday life?

María López Matallana: As you know very well, people do not encounter isolated problems. They encounter a whole set of problems across different areas of life. Housing may be somewhat more personal because you can try to find somewhere else to live. It's not always easy, of course, because you need the financial means to do it.

But perhaps you can find another place that is more suitable. [00:16:00] The problem becomes even greater when you have to share an environment collectively at work, in educational settings, at any level, whether school, secondary school, or university, or when you have to enter public spaces such as a library or a medical clinic or a hospital.

That's where things become even more difficult. You already know this. And even in personal spaces that you have adapted, problems arise if you're not warned in advance. For example, if you live in an apartment building, and most of us live in apartments here, and there's going to be pest control or fumigation or some other treatment, or the same thing happens at work, you may not be able to return when products like that are used.

The safety period you need can be much longer than it is for other people. Failing to take those issues into account can have a very serious effect on health. Sometimes I think we may need to start making very serious formal complaints when these [00:17:00] problems are ignored. These are things we may need to begin thinking about.

How do we assert our rights? Why do we feel as though having this illness is somehow our fault? It's not our fault. This is a reality. It is a disability like any other, and we deserve the same respect as people with visual, hearing, or any other kind of disability. I think we need to begin fighting for recognition that we are part of society and that we must be able to obtain the accommodations we need in order to live in society.

Perhaps one of the hardest areas is education at every stage. Children, adolescents, young people, and adults facing barriers to get an education. And of course, employment is extremely important. What we've found is that it is important to support affected people by providing information to their neighbors and residential [00:18:00] communities, to their workplaces, and to schools about their needs and the accommodations that are necessary, just as accommodations are necessary for any other disability.

Someone who's blind or someone who uses a wheelchair has certain accessibility needs. We have different kinds of difficulties that also require accommodation in public spaces, and we believe patient organizations need to accompany and support the affected person through that process, and that's what we're doing.

At the more local level, our association provides direct support through official letters and, when necessary, formal complaints accompanying the person through the process. There's also another level of work involving authorities and local government, as well as the publications we're producing together with other disability organizations, and these help demonstrate that accommodations are necessary and that people need support in obtaining them [00:19:00] We're doing this in hospitals as well, and we now have begun a new area of work helping with workplace accommodations.

Building on our Green Book, we've started working more specifically on individual cases, assessing each workplace to determine how it can be adapted so that people do not have to give up their jobs. We also want coworkers to understand that what is happening is not invented. It is real. It has physical consequences, and it can have serious consequences for the person if appropriate measures are not put in place.

Aaron Goodman: And making these accommodations is not necessarily that complicated. Perhaps not every job can be adapted, but many of them can. What difficulties do people with MCS face in accessing healthcare safely in Spain? And what happens when the hospital itself or the doctor's office or other [00:20:00] healthcare settings contain fragrances, cleaning products, or other substances that can make people ill?

María López Matallana: In Spain, one of the first areas we worked on was trying to establish accommodations specifically in healthcare settings for people with multiple chemical sensitivity. And Spain is divided into administrative units called autonomous communities. At the moment, there are 14 autonomous communities, and we've managed to establish an MCS healthcare protocol, I believe, in eight of them.

It's not always an entire autonomous community. Sometimes the protocol exists only in specific hospitals. But once one hospital establishes a protocol for caring for people with multiple chemical sensitivity, it becomes easier to take that model elsewhere. You can take it to another hospital in the same autonomous community or use protocols from other communities as [00:21:00] examples One of the first was achieved in Madrid, and the most recent one at the moment is in a hospital in Zaragoza.

Sometimes it's only one hospital, and sometimes it covers the entire administrative unit, the autonomous community. Implementation is difficult. Patient associations have to keep pushing. But once it is officially recognized, you can demand that it be applied, and that makes things much easier. What we still need in Spain is for every autonomous community to adopt such a protocol.

We also need it to become normal knowledge for all healthcare staff. That's not yet the case. There's a great deal of staff turnover. You may arrive at a hospital emergency department and have to wait outside because you cannot share the waiting room with other people. But if the staff know about the protocol and have procedures in place, for example, in the [00:22:00] community of Madrid, there are signs at the entrance telling people with multiple chemical sensitivity to identify themselves so that a special protocol can be applied and the person does not become worse.

Because the problem is that you may arrive with a sprained ankle and leave on a stretcher and in a much worse condition. So little by little, we are making progress because we've obtained recognition through the health administration. The next step is training staff, and that has not always been achieved.

But if we have a document signed by the health authority, then you can invoke it, file complaints if it is not followed, and ask your hospital to take it into account It is also beginning to be taken into account for surgery and for medical appointments. Of course, an operating room has to be disinfected.

We understand that. There are certain things you cannot simply eliminate, but you can adapt the [00:23:00] circumstances. The operating room still has to be disinfected. However, once you leave the operating room, you can have an adapted environment. Perhaps some follow-up can be done from home. There are different ways to provide care that is genuinely safer for you and does not worsen your overall condition.

We all know what can happen. You may have appendicitis and also have multiple chemical sensitivity, and after everything you've been exposed to, you no longer know which symptoms are coming from what. It becomes very complicated, and recovery from surgery can be difficult. Easier to obtain these accommodations in hospitals than in ordinary medical clinics.

In Spain, we also have a public healthcare system, which is funded through taxes and is free at the point of care. So the public system really does need to catch up and be able to provide these accommodations. In addition, the number of people with Multiple Chemical [00:24:00] Sensitivity is increasing, and there are people with other illnesses who are not diagnosed with MCS but who have intolerances or sensitivities to environmental chemicals because of their conditions or medications, and their needs also need to be taken into account.

Aaron Goodman: In that area, we're trying to take a leading role together with patient associations representing other illnesses, promoting these considerations and accommodations that can benefit everyone. Transplant recipients, for example, or people with autoimmune diseases. There are many people who are affected by chemical sensitivity in practice, even though they do not have an MCS diagnosis.

What kinds of workplace accommodations have actually worked for people with MCS? Are measures such as fragrance-free policies, safer cleaning products, better ventilation, or remote work options realistic? Bueno, depende del espacio de trabajo. Esto ya lo sabemos, ¿no? It [00:25:00] depends on the workplace. We know that often, perhaps always, you need the people you work with to follow as strict a fragrance-free protocol as possible.

María López Matallana: And in the end, the coworker who has multiple chemical sensitivity may be the one who has to provide examples of personal care and laundry products that colleagues can use. In other words, there's a great deal that the affected person ends up having to do. Then there's a part that coworkers have to do, and another part the employer has to do.

The employer can remove air fresheners and identify suitable cleaning products. Those measures are for everyone. The employer also has to support the accommodation by making sure all staff, including cleaning staff, understand and follow it. The company also has responsibilities regarding products and ventilation, and may need to identify a well-ventilated workspace for the affected person.

In the green book on workplace [00:26:00] accommodation for people with multiple chemical sensitivity and electromagnetic hypersensitivity that we published, which is available online and has now been published in English, we set out the different needs and possible accommodations. And we've seen that it is not actually so difficult.

The employer has to be willing, and coworkers have to be willing. It needs to be explained clearly, and the process needs to be made understandable and manageable so that everyone can see that it's feasible. It really is not that difficult. They are changes, of course, but I do not think the hardest changes are necessarily the ones the employer has to make.

An employer can change cleaning products, stop using air fresheners, and make sure there's good ventilation I think the COVID period actually led to some progress for people with multiple chemical sensitivity because there was much greater awareness of cross-ventilation [00:27:00] and other aspects of indoor air that help people with MCS remain in their workplaces.

But sometimes the physical space simply does not meet the necessary requirements. Then perhaps you have to identify a specific area where the affected person can be better protected. You have to try. We also understand that some jobs are harder to adapt because of their inherent characteristics. In some workplaces that are harder to adapt, air filtration equipment can also be provided.

Improving air filtration is another measure that ultimately benefits the whole community and all workers. I think we also need to communicate that idea that everyone benefits, especially in an increasingly polluted world. We are seeing the WHO point to the amount of pollution inside buildings, in some contexts even more than outdoors despite traffic and other outdoor sources.

This is an issue we [00:28:00] need to address. I think the different organizations working on multiple chemical sensitivity in Europe and around the world need to work together to show that we are like little canaries in the coal mine. We are warning that there is a problem. If we improve these environments, the whole population will benefit, and people will be healthier overall.

Aaron Goodman: That is true whether or not someone has multiple chemical sensitivity because other conditions can also be worsened by this pollution in indoor and outdoor environments, which we may perceive much earlier. What role does stigma still play? Do people with MCS continue to face disbelief or have their symptoms treated as psychological? And what consequences does this have for their lives?

María López Matallana: I think this is a somewhat personal answer. I believe it's harder for people to accept a disability such as multiple chemical sensitivity. When accommodating, it means that you, my child, my neighbor, my teacher, whoever you are, [00:29:00] have to change your own behavior. Usually, the expectation is that I'm the one who adapts because I use a wheelchair or carry a white cane, for example.

But when someone has a disability, we generally try to find a way to adapt so that the barrier can be overcome. But for me to overcome my barrier, I need the person with me to change habits, not to wear perfume, for example, or not to wash their hair with a heavily fragranced tropical shampoo. I'm asking that person to change aspects of their personal life, not just what happens in public spaces.

It's one thing for my boss not to use an air freshener because I work in that office. It's another thing to ask the coworker sitting next to me to not wear aftershave or perfume. So I think the conflict arises at that meeting point between public and private life, between the shared public environment and someone's personal use of fragrances I think that's our biggest problem and the most difficult barrier to overcome, and it applies at work and across every part of [00:30:00] everyday life because multiple chemical sensitivity affects every area of both public and private life.

How many families have children come home from school and change their clothes in separate room? How many families have children come home from school and change clothes in a separate room, put their clothes in a bag, and only then hug their mother, for example? I also think there's an important gender dimension.

There are certainly many men with multiple chemical sensitivity, but more women are affected, and there's probably some kind of biological explanation for that. It may have to do with the body's ability to process and eliminate toxic substances. But whatever the explanation, difficulty affects the whole community, including men.

It's something people still have trouble understanding. Now, people can understand that you're allergic to one specific thing, but they struggle to understand something that is so broad. They ask, "Tell me exactly what I have to do." And it could seem like a long list. Do not use fabric [00:31:00] softener, do not wear perfume, be careful about the makeup you use, and so on.

So there is a great deal of stigma toward people who live with multiple chemical sensitivity every area of life because the condition is not understood. People understand a specific allergy, but they do not understand the broader pattern of sensitivity, and they do not understand why everyone around the person may have to adapt so much.

There's significant isolation within families, major loss of employment, and many people leave their jobs or eventually lose them, and that creates substantial inequality. In some countries, including Spain, the national medical ICD system has included multiple chemical sensitivity in an annex. I believe this has happened in Japan, Germany, and Australia.

There are several countries where something like this has occurred, and it happened in Spain. Now, we have just marked 10 years since this annex [00:32:00] recognized multiple chemical sensitivity as a health condition. And when countries add something like this, one purpose is to begin counting cases and seeing what impact the condition has.

Achieving that recognition has helped us a great deal in Spain. It has helped us obtain the official healthcare protocols I mentioned, which I believe now exist in about eight autonomous communities. It has also helped us when requesting workplace accommodation. It has helped us. Having multiple chemical sensitivity included in the national annex has been useful.

It has not solved everything because we still have to fight case by case in every setting, every situation, every public administration, and every hospital. We will have to continue doing that But it has made it easier to require the administration, especially the health administration, to listen to us.

You can also take that recognition to a [00:33:00] school. There may still be many difficulties. People may resist, and accommodations may be implemented badly. But having MCS appear in your country's ICD-related coding system, because this is a country-specific annex, has been a major help to us. It is helping us reach things like the Green Book and other forms of recognition because the government has in some way formally recognized the condition within its disease classification system.

This has been important in helping us obtain hospital protocols for multiple chemical sensitivity in seven or eight autonomous communities. It's also been important for obtaining workplace accommodations. Not always, there are still many difficulties, but sometimes it makes a difference It was also important in making this green book possible together with the Fundación Once, which financed it completely.

The green book on workplace adaptation for people with multiple chemical sensitivity and electromagnetic [00:34:00] hypersensitivity has opened a new door for us, the door to disability organizations and organizations representing people with disabilities in Spain. That has been extremely important because it is allowing us to reach places we could not reach before.

It may sound simple, but being able to hand someone this book has given us an opportunity we did not have before. Having the backing of Fundación Once, a very well-known and influential disability organization in Spain, has been an enormously important step. That does not mean everything is solved. There is still a great deal to do and a great deal to fight for, but now we have documents we can use.

The study we carried out together with Medusa Human Rights has also helped us name what is happening, to identify the barriers that exist across different areas of our lives, and to make those barriers visible. I think the study was also a doorway that helped us reach [00:35:00] Fundación Once. It helped frame the issue as one of accessibility.

If you cannot access your home, your workplace, your school, or shops, that is an accessibility problem. Of course, perhaps you can buy things online, but there are other public and shared spaces you should be able to access. You should be able to go to a library, a social center, or a cultural center. You should be able to participate in the social life of your community like anyone else.

But at a minimum, access to education, employment, and housing has to be guaranteed. This publication has helped us a great deal with that, and I would say there are really two perspectives that have made this possible. One is the healthcare perspective, and the other is the disability perspective. The disability route is allowing us to open doors that were previously closed.

Aaron Goodman: That has been a discovery for us because before, we were pursuing [00:36:00] only the medical and healthcare route. Accessibility gives us another route. If workplaces must be accessible, then people must be able to access them. And people also need accessible healthcare centers because they are public facilities, accessible libraries because they are public facilities, and so on If you could speak directly to someone who has just developed multiple chemical sensitivity and feels they have lost their job, their independence, or their place in society, what would you want to say to them?

María López Matallana: I think all of us who live with this health condition have to come together and fight together. If we go one by one, we will not achieve anything. Patient associations are important because they can support people, accompanying someone at work when they request an accommodation or supporting them in their residential community when they [00:37:00] ask for changes.

And for that, we have to be together. We have to be organized in associations, and we have to share. We need a collective voice. You are a voice for the community as well, but the community itself has to act collectively. We cannot continue approaching everything only as individuals. And social media can make it seem as though people are connected, and younger people in particular may be very active online, but that is not the same as having an organization.

Where's the organization that enables us to reach public authorities in every part of society? We're not simply one person plus one person plus one person. We are a collective. We move forward together, fight together, present our documentation together, and present our arguments together. And together we assert that we are part of society with our circumstances just as so many other people are.

[00:38:00] I'll think about it more, and we can come back to it if you like, but yes, I genuinely believe that we have to organize in associations in each country and also work together internationally. It's very important that we work together for these accommodations and that the World Health Organization take a serious step forward.

We need official recognition of this condition that can make the legal path easier for obtaining accommodations, support, and healthier spaces. Because in the end, what we are asking for is also healthier spaces for society as a whole. That is also part of it. We are those, what do you call them? The canaries in the coal mine.

We're giving a warning. So I think it is important that we work together and do things together. We're very grateful that you found us and wanted to listen to our voice as well. We may be a relatively small country, but we're grateful for the opportunity. I also think we need to reach out much [00:39:00] more to Latin America, where people have been terribly neglected on these issues.

Aaron Goodman: In many places there, it is as though the issue barely exists at all. Europe, United States, and Australia are at a different stage. So yes, I believe we need to move toward finding solutions together. Thank you. You've been listening to The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast. I'm Aaron Goodman, host and creator of the podcast.

The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast is by and for the MCS community. The podcast is generously supported by the Marilyn Brachman Hoffman Foundation and listeners like you. If you wish to support the podcast, please visit listen.chemicalsensitivitypodcast.org. Your support will help us continue making the podcast available and raising awareness about MCS.

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