Aaron Goodman: Welcome to The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast. I'm Aaron Goodman. For decades, people living with Multiple Chemical Sensitivity have worked to raise awareness, educate clinicians, and advocate for safe healthcare. Often this work happens quietly, carried forward by people who are themselves unwell and deeply concerned about the suffering of others.

My guest today is Sharyb Martin, an Australian researcher with a PhD and a background in biochemistry and immunology who has lived with MCS since 1992. 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: I might be all right at the moment, but I know that there are hundreds of people who are in such terrible conditions and really need help. 

Aaron Goodman: When Sharyn developed the illness, she was working as a research scientist, [00:01:00] and she expected medical professionals to listen.: Instead, she describes feeling abandoned. She eventually left her workplace and moved several times in search of somewhere she could live safely For more than three decades, Sharyn's own experiences and the hardships shared with her by others with MCS have motivated her to keep working for change.

Through her involvement with the Allergy, Sensitivity and Environmental Health Association in Queensland, known as ASEHA, and the Australian National Register of Environmental Sensitivities, or ANRES, Sharyn has helped create websites and resources that provide important information about MCS for people with the illness, their families, and healthcare providers.

Aaron Goodman: Her work has included efforts to educate clinicians, develop guidelines for doctors, and advocate for safer healthcare and hospital protocols [00:02:00] so people with MCS can receive the care they need. Personally, I feel indebted to and inspired by people like Sharyn. I see Sharyn as one of the quiet pioneers who have worked tirelessly for decades to make a path for others.

Aaron Goodman: So much of that work happens outside the spotlight, and it deserves recognition. In this conversation, we explore Sharyn advocacy, the findings of a 2026 report that she co-wrote, and the urgent need for safe housing, accessible healthcare, and disability support. We also discuss why clinicians, researchers, and policy makers need to listen to people living with MCS, and what keeps her going after so many years.

Aaron Goodman: Please check out and share the podcast website, listen.chemicalsensitivitypodcast.org. It's an easy way to introduce friends, family members, healthcare providers, [00:03:00] researchers, and others to conversations about MCS. And please subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch the conversation on YouTube.

Aaron Goodman: Just search for The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast, and you can find out more about the podcast on Facebook, X, Instagram, BlueSky, and TikTok. And you can reach me at aaron@chemicalsensitivitypodcast.org. Here's my conversation with Sharyn Martin. Thanks for listening and watching.

Dr. Martin, thank you very much for joining me. 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: I developed the MCS in 1992. I was working as a research scientist in Brisbane, and, um, to tell you the truth, when I first got it and went to doctors, I couldn't believe the fact that I was pretty much abandoned. You know, nobody knew anything about it. They didn't believe me, and it was just [00:04:00] such a shock that, that this was the attitude.

So, you know, I went on the journey that every MCSer went through, which is going to different doctors, getting various opinions, and of course I read a lot of research about it, and I did actually find a doctor in Sydney who did know a huge amount about MCS, which was Dr. Donahue. And, uh, yeah, he was really one of two, three doctors in Australia who knew anything about MCS.

So, you know, it was a, a awful journey to try and work through it, and I had to leave my place of work, and fortunately I have a wonderful partner and he has stood by me the whole time, and because of that he's allowed me to move. [00:05:00] We started to look in the country areas just a little bit out of Brisbane, a major suburb, and of course that's when I encountered heavy industry.

And what went with that, you know, how sick it made me, and I had no idea what was causing it. So again, it's another MCS dilemma, what is causing my ill health? So from there, that was no longer viable living anywhere in Brisbane, so we moved to New South Wales to a small country town, and it was there that we met up with livestock and the problems with that.

You know, the drenching, the chemicals they're given, and of course the cropping. Of all the cropping is all treated with chemicals. So really, in Australia, I didn't think there was anywhere for us [00:06:00] to live, and really there isn't. The next thing we did was move to a, a smaller country town sort of way up on the tablelands, and I had to put up with 10 years of livestock being next door and drenched and, yeah.

So of course, uh, like everybody, I went through a awful journey, and what I'm finding now is at last I am finding a little bit, and my MCS has improved somewhat, that, you know, I can walk past a shop now. I can, you know. So, you know, there is some relief for people, but it's not easy because you have to isolate yourself from absolutely everything.

You know, and that's once you've found everything in your house that's causing a problem, and then of course everything you're eating. Is that a [00:07:00] problem? And yeah, it is just such a minefield for, for people with MCS, and that's what really got me into trying to do something about it. And I started working with a lady in Brisbane with her group, the Allergy and Health Group, and we wrote a lot of submissions to the Australian government and w- wrote a lot of pamphlets for people, you know, to try and live by, you know, guidelines for people visiting those with MCS.

And sort of like ever since I got it, I've been working to get some sort of recognition And I must say, at first I was trying to focus on the science of MCS, and really that got us nowhere because there were too many people who could claim otherwise. You know, they could sort [00:08:00] of, a whole gang of scientists could be sitting there saying, "No, they're wrong."

So really the, the focus now is on the disability that people with MCS face, and, you know, the social exclusion. It, it's just heartbreaking. 

Aaron Goodman:. I'm really interested in learning a little bit more about the kind of work you were doing at that time. 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: Well, the work I was doing at that time, I was working for a company that was making medical tests. So we were developing these tests, and what really, we were using a lot of toxic chemicals And sort of like it wasn't made aware to us, and that's sort of like a bit, um, a bit slack to say, but really we didn't. You know, we were working with things like formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, which are, are really sort of like the demon of e- people with [00:09:00] MCS.

I worked in science for over 20 years, and I thought I was pretty much invincible, but one day I was walking down a corridor in our building, and, um, the tests we were doing, they needed a, a plastic stick which was sterilized in formaldehyde. And as I walked past this area, I just could not breathe.

You know, there was absolutely no way. And of course, nobody knew what was doing. I was taken to a doctor and not believed and all of that. And yet I found there at least two other people who were working in our building who also had MCS and were having similar problems. Like nobody knew what to do. Do I leave?

You know, do I try and stick it out? But yeah, I believe a lot of the problems that [00:10:00] started with me was the number of toxic chemicals we were allowed to be using in our laboratories. Of course, a lot of this work has been tightened up now, and you know, it's gotta be carefully done.

Aaron Goodman: Your type of training, uh, your specialization at that time?

Sharyn Martin, PhD: It was in biochemistry immunology. We used a lot of biochemistry to develop our tests, and we needed a lot of immunology because we used, um, lab mice to develop antibodies to perform our tests. Mm-hmm. So yeah, it was a bit of a mixed one. But it was just depended on what the company wanted to be developed.

Aaron Goodman: Sharyn tells me she developed MCS while completing her PhD. 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: It was just pure determination that I finished. I would meet with my supervisor outside of the, uh, university buildings. [00:11:00] We'd meet in the park, and yeah, discuss things like that. So it was just pure persistence on my part that I actually got my PhD.

You know, it wasn't easy because of course I had to be exposed to a lot of the problems, the chemicals along the way. But at that time, I thought I was doing the right thing. I thought I would get better. 

Aaron Goodman: I believe you said doctors didn't believe you, or doctors didn't knowhow  to respond. And here you were, a woman with a PhD,, a researcher. How was that experience for you of those medical encounters when you were seeking validation and help and being dismissed?

Sharyn Martin, PhD: I felt abandoned. You know, abandoned ‘cause I worked in hospitals prior to this company, so I was amongst doctors. I worked with them a lot, and I just didn't believe that [00:12:00] — I thought they would be happy to have a researcher get it, and this researcher would be happy to provide them with information.

I honestly could not believe that they were doubting me. Um, yeah, and it was a hard bit to go through. And I think it was more to do with my partner reassuring me that, “No, everything you're saying is true. I've seen this happen to you." You know, to hold strong, you know. And he would come with me to, to  appointments and, you know, just that strength behind you.

Aaron Goodman: How widely is MCS recognized in Australia, and what are the greatest challenges that people in Australia with MCS are facing? 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: There’s not much recognition of MCS in Australia as yet. There are [00:13:00] probably, oh, a  handful of doctors who will help people with MCS, but really there's not a lot of recognition in Australia at the moment, and that's what is, is holding people up with MCS.

Because unless there's that initial recognition by, um, doctors, nothing else will happen. They are the gatekeepers to everything. You know, if you can get a tick from, from a doctor, you can get social services. You know, if you can get a, a tick from a doctor, you can get disability, et cetera, et cetera. So really people with MCS in Australia are struggling, and they really don't know where to go or what to do now because they're living in horrendous circumstances.

You know, many are [00:14:00] living in homes, areas that are unsuitable for them, and they just can't get any help. So it, it's really the initial formal recognition that, that is missing here as everywhere else in the world. 

Aaron Goodman: You’re listening and watching The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast. I'm Aaron Goodman. Please subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts, including on YouTube. Now back to my conversation with Sharyn Martin in Australia. 

What do you think it would take for there to be a formal recognition? Would it have to come from the World Health Organization, or could it come from Australia itself? 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: I think it could come from Australia itself because in 2006, the group I was with, the Azia Group, myself and Dorothy Bowers and a couple [00:15:00] of GPs were trying to write guidelines for MCS, for doctors so they, like they do for chronic fatigue syndrome.

Now, we were working on that for oh, a couple of years, and unfortunately we had a change of government, and all of that just collapsed into nothing. So I think really maybe individuals with MCS combined with, um, physicians could get this on the, on the, you know, going here, but there's no will to, and everybody with MCS is honestly too unwell to do it.

Aaron Goodman: You wrote a 2026 report, I believe. Can you talk a little bit about what that involved and the focus, and what are the most urgent calls for action for people with MCS? 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: I moved to New South Wales and we thought, "No, we can't let this drop." We didn't [00:16:00] get the guidelines for doctors, so myself and Lucinda Curran thought that we'd start up a website that was looking at all the people with MCS and all of the other environmental sensitivity conditions that go along with this.

So what we found was a majority of people were, were letting us know they had MCS, but often they had three to four other conditions, you know, like fragrance sensitivity, food sensitivity, chronic fatigue syndrome. And so that was the focus, was to get this information down, and then we thought, "Well, we should have a look to see what effects it's having on people."

And that's why we, we then asked, "Well, do you suffer any hardships with these, um, conditions?" And, you know, visiting a doctor, visiting a [00:17:00] hospital, how was education for you, how was employment, how was housing? And we found that in the majority of cases, most people would have problems with all of these factors.

I think the major one is this formal recognition, number one, you know? And then people needed things like we needed to raise awareness of sensitivity within the public domain as well as the medical domain. And then of course, we had to look at, um, suitable housing, 'cause suitable housing is a human right, and this was not happening.

And healthcare access, 'cause people couldn't visit a hospital, because hospitals are quite toxic little places for people with MCS, so there's another area. 'Cause people with MCS get other problems too that need [00:18:00] medical intervention. 

Aaron Goodman: What do you think needs to change so people with MCS can access medical facilities, doctors, and hospitals safely?

Sharyn Martin, PhD: I think it needs to come back to public buildings. We need standards that, that say they can't use these toxic materials when they're building these types of facilities. And with the EMF, that needs to be taken into account, too. So what we need is buildings with less toxic materials in there. The paint doesn't need to be glossy and animal. It can be a low chemical one or a no-chemical one. 

Aaron Goodman: What do you think about fragrance in laundry products?

Sharyn Martin, PhD: I think really that becomes a part of the building standards, you know, for places like hospitals. Fragrances, [00:19:00] heavy scents should not be in those practices anyway 'cause people with asthma have problems with it.

People with cancer have problems with it. It's not just people with MCS. So if these issues were looked at more from a, a total public perspective, maybe they would get moved on quicker because like I say, it's not just us who are, are suffering from these things. It's just others may not recognize the problem.

Aaron Goodman: In Australia, what options are there for people who cannot find or cannot afford safe housing? 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: Their cars actually. That's pretty much it, you know. Get in the car and travel around because honestly, there is no facility here to go to. You know, if we had [00:20:00] a, a public area with little tiny homes built on them that were suitable that people could go to in crisis times would certainly be of benefit for people, but unfortunately, we just don't have anything.

So really, as I said, they don't have an option. It's their car really. 

Aaron Goodman: You must know people with MCS who are currently living in vehicles. 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: Yes, that's right. Yep. They're homeless. 

Aaron Goodman: There must be countless people with MCS living in vehicles in Australia, in North America, in Europe. 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: Yep. I mean, this is a worldwide problem, you know, and I don't think people with MCS from any country are any different to anybody else with it. It's not an American MCS or an Australian MCS. It's just MCS. We all have the problem, and it would be lovely if we could all [00:21:00] get to stand up all together and get some action together, and that was part of the website focus, was we were trying to get the information there so we could stand up and point this out to government.

You know, like write reports, put submissions in, say, "This is the case." Not try and say, "Oh, we do have MCS." It's really presuming. We have MCS. This is the problem, and these are human rights problems. You know?  People are living in horrible conditions. Yes. 

Aaron Goodman: And in Australia, do you wanna talk a little bit about how people with MCS struggle to access disability and financial support?

Sharyn Martin, PhD: Well, it's the same thing. There's no proof for them to take in to social services to say they have a problem. [00:22:00] So really, any of these social services or disabilities, unless a doctor will tick it off, they can say, "Well, you've got no proof. Go away." You know, and that's that. So unless you can get a doctor's signature somewhere along the way, you, you're out of it.

You know, you're not even in the loop. And that's why myself and my partner worked hard for me to get recognized by the Centrelink, which sort of like the unemployment, to get them to recognize that I had MCS and a problem. And that was only because I happened to have a doctor who was up to listening to me and gave me the report I needed.

But again, it's not every doctor that will listen and do things like that. So yeah, it's just a pure [00:23:00] chance whether or not you can.. As for getting payments, people are just as poor. Poor in their cars, you know. It's, yeah, drastic 

Aaron Goodman: What should doctors be taught now to prevent disbelief and delays in care for people with MCS?

Sharyn Martin, PhD: I think it needs to come through in their education in whatever they're taught, you know, and not just a two-week course, if that, you know. But then doctors have so much to learn in their six years. I'm not quite sure where they could be shoved in these sorts of things. So I mean, the system is a bit unwieldy at the moment.

Aaron Goodman: What practical changes could workplaces and public services make immediately? 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: Well, workplaces could make it easier for people to actually work in these building, 'cause I've [00:24:00] heard so many people tell me they will ask for some, some assistance from people not to wear perfume or for them to be placed somewhere else in the office or whatever workplace it is that is suitable to them.

So I think that if they could bring in that sort of background for people, either being a little bit more open to listening to them and trying to work out something with people. Because what you find is if you say to people, "Your perfume stinks, it makes me sick," people just back up and go, "Oh, no, it doesn't," and they will argue with you.

So it's having the legislation say down before anything happens. And again, that needs to come through government. 

Aaron Goodman: What is the most urgent action you want the Australian [00:25:00] policymakers to take?

Sharyn Martin, PhD: To create legislation to say it does exist, and the fact that these people are disabled and that they need housing, health, and workplace.All of these factors need to be taken into consideration for them to live because it's costing them money if we're not working and providing them tax money. 

Aaron Goodman: I wonder if I could get your thoughts on the state of research now when it comes to MCS?

Sharyn Martin, PhD: I think the research is getting a little bit more sophisticated, getting into it a little bit deeper, and trying to find where it, what part of the body is consistently going wrong with MCS people.

And I think there is a underlying [00:26:00] factor that produces either MCS, the electromagnetic frequency people, for the chronic fatigue. They're starting to look more into the genetic mechanisms and the immunological mechanisms because MCS, you'd really think, is a problem with detoxification, and that's sort of like somewhere that has been looked at because it's so huge.

It hasn't been focused into, and I think most of the research is now starting to focus into the, the nitty-gritties of it. Hopefully there will be more research. And the science we need to come is from large laboratories, and to get the research done, you need funding dollars. Individuals can't attract that sort of funding.

It needs to go through a university or, or a hospital. So yeah, I think it needs [00:27:00] major research. 

Aaron Goodman: I find that many researchers come to conclusions that are informed by their specific training So if a psychologist is going write a paper out of MCS, they’re gonna look at it s- through a psychological lens, and without looking at the whole other range of information that exists, that really does show that MCS is not a psychological disorder. 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: You know, I just call it psychobabble. That's all they know, and it's not that they know anything more than anybody else. Like you say, it's their theme, it's their bent.

I wrote a little article on it because it's ridiculous. 'Cause if you look into those papers closely, you can see a lot of these things are wrong or they've put their own thoughts into whatever people say. They'll say, "Oh, that's anxiety," but not look at, you know, what's causing them to feel anxious.

'Cause we know that chemical assaults make us feel anxious and make us feel angry, and our, our emotions get away from us. And I can see, of course where they could use that to write their papers, 'cause that's what they see, is us being angry, in denial. And they'll just, "Oh, yeah, she's anxious." Whereas another researcher who might be working on MCS may see that person and say, "Hey, what's just happened to them?” You know, "What caused them to become like this?" 

Aaron Goodman: That’s right. And that's, that's what I've found all the way through. It seems like people's own disciplines can create metaphorical blinders- 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: Yes. Yes, yes, very much so in the psychological scene. There was a lady, Iris Bell, who is [00:29:00] into psychology, but she can see it from the point of view of MCS, and has described it more as a sensitization that can be explained psychologically or physiologically, and she does a really nice job of it. 

But, you know, on the whole, I think she's the only one positive psychologist I've seen write on it. We need more on the other side.

Aaron Goodman: Another phenomenon that I often see is research conducted about MCS doesn't involve any discussion with people with MCS, and I find that really troubling to make conclusions about us, about this illness, without even talking to us. How can it be that they would do that? 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: The convenience in making it a tidy paper. You don't want too many complications when you're writing up a [00:30:00] paper. You want it nice and smooth on the way through, and instead of people throwing in their bits and pieces and mucking it all up. But I hope that more and more researchers will actually consult with people with MCS, 'cause that's what's been missing for awfully long time.

Aaron Goodman: If I could perhaps kind of underline the, a theme that's come through to me from just speaking with you is a deep desire for people with MCS to be heard by clinicians and healthcare workers, physicians, researchers. 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: You pointed it perfectly, because that's how I feel it is, that we do, we need to be heard before anything else can happen. Because all of this is pertinent to everybody else in the public, because anybody can get MCS. There is no barrier, [00:31:00] you know. It's not poor, rich, young, old. We see it across the board of everybody. So what we're saying and the experiences we have is important to everybody else, and unfortunately it's not recognized as such or listened to.We could do a lot to help people. 

Aaron Goodman: Dr. Martin, you've been working on MCS for decades. What keeps you going? 

Sharyn Martin, PhD: I couldn't imagine not keeping going on it because it makes you wanna cry when you're talking to people with MCS. It's heartbreaking to read their comments and what they're talking about and hardships, and that's what has to keep you going because I might be all right at the moment, but I know that there are hundreds of people who are in such terrible conditions and really need help. So keeping going is really because of the people with this and what they're saying. 

Aaron Goodman: You’ve been listening and watching The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast. I'm the host and podcast creator Aaron Goodman. The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast is by and for the MCS community. The podcast is generously supported by the Marilyn Brachman Hoffman Foundation and listeners like you.

If you wish to support the podcast, please visit listen.chemicalsensitivitypodcast.org. Your support will help us continue making the podcast available and creating greater awareness about MCS. To learn more about The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast, please follow the podcast on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Blue Sky, and TikTok, and you can reach me at aaron@chemicalsensitivitypodcast.org. Thanks for listening and watching. 

The Chemical Sensitivity Podcast and its associated website [00:33:00] are the work of Aaron Goodman, made possible with funds from the Marilyn Brachman Hoffman Foundation, supporting efforts to educate and inform physicians, scientists, and the public about multiple chemical sensitivity.

The content, opinions, findings, statements, and recommendations expressed in this Chemical Sensitivity Podcast and associated website do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of its sponsors.